Natasha Lyonne and Rian Johnson Unveil the Future of “Poker Face” Season 2

[This narrative includes spoilers from the first three episodes of the series premiere.]
Poker Face
season two.]

Poker Face
Is back, and after viewing the initial three episodes of season two, you might question whether creator-writer-director Rian Johnson has tied up the series’ main storyline.

The initial season of the weekly murder mystery series featuring writer-director Natasha Lyonne unveiled Lyonne’s detective lead character.
Charlie Cale
As a fugitive possessing an exceptional talent for detecting lies, she uses this skill to unravel murders she encounters. While driving her Plymouth Barracuda to escape from a mob boss (portrayed by Ron Perlman) and his henchmen, including Benjamin Bratt, she tackles a different murder mystery every episode. Although each case stands alone within the season, they collectively build towards a larger overarching antagonist who ties everything together throughout the series.
cliffhanger season one finale
Assign the new mob boss Beatrix Hasp (Rhea Perlman) to pursue Charlie.

That ending laid the groundwork for
second season
that opened with
Charlie is still at large.
when the first three episodes of the 12-episode season released on Thursday. The third episode, titled “Whack-a-Mole,” however, closed the book on Hasp. Charlie, with the help of her FBI pal Agent Luca (Simon Helberg), caught Hasp and brokered a deal with the show’s villain to leave Charlie alone; John Mulaney and Richard Kind also guest starred. When the show returns with its fourth episode, Charlie will be free of the mob boss albatross as she sets out on a more existential road trip this season.

Here, Johnson and Lyonne have a conversation with
The Hollywood Reporter
Regarding their return following a successful initial season (and now under the guidance of new showrunner Tony Tost), how they once again secured the top spot
eye-popping guest cast on television
“There’s a genuine aspect of unpredictability and heart-stopping, eleventh-hour high stakes,” notes Johnson regarding the casting process. This led them to decide on transforming the project.
Poker Face
Into a genuine self-contained series (for at least the initial 10 episodes provided to the media): “In this show, anything could really occur.”

***

After such a
successful, well-liked first season
What was it like returning for another attempt and maintaining that level of intensity?

RIAN JOHNSON

In my view, the initial stress wasn’t as severe. With the release of the first season, everyone seemed to embrace it with enthusiasm: “This is something special; let’s test whether it resonates.” Viewers genuinely connected with it. For the second season, our aim wasn’t to veer off course or revolutionize anything. Instead, we aimed to refine what had worked well before. Hence, the positive reception of the inaugural season only validated our approach and encouraged us to explore further possibilities without fear. This validation confirmed that the core concept functioned effectively, giving us confidence to venture beyond familiar territory.

You
talked to me regarding selecting guest stars for the first season
And could you share about assembling your list of preferred actors and directly contacting them alongside your casting team? Also, did your connections in Hollywood recommend you as potential cast members for season two?

JOHNSON

Absolutely. When it comes to casting, it really boils down to managing everyone’s schedules! You have your ideal choices, but then reality sets in with availability!

NATASHA LYONNE

– The well-known slogan #techavail. Many individuals harbor aspirations. However, upon inquiry, it often emerges that they are engaged in another endeavor.
Laughs
)

JOHNSON

Exactly right. Since we aren’t casting the show systematically from the start—instead doing it weekly—we genuinely experience moments of chaos and tense anticipation with those heart-stopping, eleventh-hour negotiations.
laughs
) when it comes to finalizing all the details. However, this can result in scenarios where Natasha and I end up messaging mutual acquaintances. These could involve people we recently met at a gathering who say something along the lines of, “I’d really enjoy being part of it.” Then we might respond with, “Great! Would you like to come over on Tuesday for an audition as the main character?”
Laughs
So, when you put together their conventional efforts from our casting directors Mary Vernieu and Brett Howe, we manage to navigate through it all and complete the task.

LYONNE

Rian has referred to it as setting down tracks just as a train is coming near.

JOHNSON

The train is moving, and you’re setting down the tracks!

LYONNE

I appreciate that comparison. It brings back memories of our texting conversation during the production of season two.
Poker Face,
And season one as well—it’s truly been quite a ride. We had Megan Thee Stallion for roughly 20 seconds on a Sunday, but it was brief—she appeared just before heading to New York a couple of weeks later.
Laughs
)

Was there anyone from season one you couldn’t get that you brought back this season?

LYONNE

The character played by Noah Segan returned to the series, which was delightful!
Segan is present in all of Johnson’s projects.
]

JOHNSON

It seems possible that we might have considered Alia Shawkat and Awkwafina for [the role] back in season one. It appears quite probable. However, they had prior commitments. During season one, we conducted a table read involving Shawkat.

LYONNE

I sat down for a table read on my couch.

JOHNSON

A sofa read!

LYONNE

Noah Segan was present as well. It turned out to be a pleasant day. Additionally, Fred Armisen: unavailable for tech duties again this season. However, he frequently messages both of us attempting to position himself into the project. Do you recall?

JOHNSON

“I dream of being part of the show!” Yep, we fantasized about having Fred conclude each episode similar to how the Cryptkeeper did.
Tales From the Crypt
– With only a two-wall setup featuring a cemetery, each episode’s coffin would belong to the character who met their demise during that installment. Fred, dressed in overalls as the gravedigger, would directly address the audience at the close of every episode, saying something like, “I never expected Jenny to bite the dust this week!” followed by, “Guess we’ll have another spooky tale for ya next time!”

LYONNE

We have been awaiting his availability!
Laughs
Rian has written it 47 times. However, Fred is constantly performing — Giggin’ Fred, that’s what they call him for that reason!

Instead, Steve Buscemi takes on an overarching voice-over role as Charlie’s CB radio friend. Known simply as “Good Buddy,” he interacts with Charlie throughout the season.

JOHNSON

[
to Lyonne
You might have messaged Steve. I wasn’t acquainted with him. It all went through Mary [Vernieu], and this occurred quite tardily since he was merely a voice on the CB radio. You acted out most of those scenes, and nobody knew who would end up being that character.

LYONNE

I would have altered everything if I had known back then that it was Steve!

Who was on the second line when you were reading your part?

JOHNSON

I’m sure different people.

LYONNE

I expected it would feature Phyllis Diller, until Rian informed me that she had unfortunately passed away sometime earlier; you can picture how surprising that was. While I love Steve, his style of performance is quite distinct from what we’d envisioned for Phyllis. Therefore, despite needing adjustments, we decided not to revise anything. So, my dear reader, we stuck with our original plan! And yes, Steve is fantastic as always.
Laughs
)

JOHNSON

He’s wonderful. He’s great. Because of the CB radio and he is called Good Buddy, we had imagined that it would have been [someone with] more of a Southern accent, but Steve ended up being just perfect. You want to get wisdom.

LYONNE

That’s amusing because every time I run into him, he puts on a Southern accent and says
mimicking Buscemi using an accent
“Hey there, buddy!” He’s typically accompanied by Fred — they’re usually seen on a two-walled setup.

JOHNSON

(
Laughs
It’s quite an extensive section, yes.

Natasha, you’ve had some enjoyable get-togethers this season.
Orange Is the New Black remains unchanged as it is a proper title of a book and TV series.
even though you and Melanie Lynskey, former co-stars Taylor Schilling and Adrienne C. Moore]
But I’m a Cheerleader
don’t appear alongside each other in her episode.
Note:

Lynskey

appears across from John Cho in the eighth episode
.]

LYONNE

Sure, Melanie and I ran into each other in a corridor, kind of saying, “After knowing each other for 25 years, this happens. Oh wait, you’re around too! Sure, you can decide then. Alright, I suppose I’ll catch up with you again when we work together in our upcoming film!”

Whom were you most thrilled about signing up for season two?

JOHNSON

I get this feeling with almost every episode, but particularly with [Cynthia Erivo]. Since I helmed the first episode as director, my perspective might be somewhat skewed.

LYONNE

She portrayed around five to six characters. The interaction between Rian and Cynthia was extremely enjoyable. It was great fun. And you have
five to six Cynthias
. [
Note: Erivo plays quintuplets.
]

JOHNSON

However, when both of you are together, along with all the dramatic moments involving various characters, there are scenes where you bond solely with DeDe, one of her more level-headed characters. These interactions between just the two of you are truly touching.

LYONNE

We genuinely shared a common linguistic ground. Creating stuff is somewhat akin to extracting concepts out of thin air, then corralling them. It’s enjoyable when everyone naturally plays along in harmony, resonating with the same tune and scale.

To what extent were you inclined to bring back characters from season one? You only reintroduced them slightly.

JOHNSON

I’m strongly considering it, which is something I’ve always preferred to leave as an option, since it feels quite cliché—like something out of a Patrick McGoohan TV show.
Columbo
Returning to portray several villains sounds great. I totally agree with you. However, we didn’t actually go through with it for this season. Apart from Noah Segan returning to take on yet another role.
Rhea Perlman and Simon Helberg return to their respective roles.
.]

LYONNE

He appears in every single one of my films, so consider this a spoiler alert! Noah has been part of our journey for quite some time. I’ve known him since he was a rebellious young teen; once, we even went on a road trip to create a film together – he drove from L.A. up to San Francisco. Therefore, he’s featured in all our projects. And guess what? He’s here with us at this very moment during the interview!
Laughs
)

When it comes to Rian including hidden references, Joseph Gordon-Levitt gets mentioned this season as well.
though he doesn’t appear, the Johnson collaborator also
appeared in an episode during season one
].

JOHNSON

Indeed, we included Joe’s presence spiritually. We should make sure to acknowledge Joe as well.

LYONNE

And in a way, Clea DuVall also, because she plays [Charlie’s] sister in season one, and came back to direct episode [10] in season two.

In season one you had the overarching hook of
mob bosses chasing Charlie
, which carried forward with the cliffhanger ending of season one to keep Charlie constantly fleeing during her weekly adventures. This situation is resolved in the third episode, providing Charlie and the series a fresh start moving onward.
The initial trio of episodes was dropped at once, succeeded by a weekly rollout.
Why did you choose to address that so quickly and decide to make season two more about Charlie’s existential journey?

JOHNSON

This concept originated in the writers’ room and emerged quite organically. In these sessions, my aim is always to emphasize the standalone episodes within our series because it’s enjoyable to map out each character’s arc throughout the season. However, what truly drives the success of the show is ensuring that viewers can tune into any single episode and still get a full experience without needing prior knowledge of previous installments—a style reminiscent of television from when I was younger. This approach resonates with me personally. Consequently, rather than following a predictable format where each new season revolves around a distinct mafia leader pursuing the protagonist leading up to an ultimate showdown with Charlie at the end, we strive to keep audiences engaged by introducing unpredictability, making them feel that literally anything could occur during the run of the show.

What intrigued you about delving into this interpretation of Charlie?

LYONNE

If you’re curious about my travels through time and space, I was simply imagining James Gandolfini and Marlon Brando as mafia leaders.
Poker Face
So, how did I react to the existential twist of events? Given that I often find myself pondering over Gandolfini’s work, I tend to be rather philosophical most of the time. This mindset provides me comfort. Life seems to have an inherent touch of existentialism everywhere you look. However, I appreciate that Charlie isn’t overwhelmed by that chaotic messiness. Instead, she maintains hope even when things seem dark. It’s refreshing that it doesn’t weigh her down or stop her from forming relationships with others, which occasionally happens in reality.

That choice sets the stage for a potentially never-ending spectacle. Could that be what they’re aiming for?

LYONNE

It’s pleasant that we can be part of this. Really, it’s great having everyone together as friends and being able to rely on one another. I’ve been suggesting a new season focused on purgatory, bringing back all the deceased characters. Think of it like a side-story: “Stories from the Other Side.”

You observe the procedural model functioning effectively within broadcast TV. Rian, you mentioned possibly delving deeper into Charlie’s character post-season one, yet it appears you took a different path. Does this suggest there might be greater interest in maintaining the weekly format instead?

JOHNSON

People appear to have taken an interest since the beginning of the first season. Trying overly hard to decipher early signs and forecast larger viewing patterns might lead you astray when predicting what kinds of shows audiences will embrace. Instead, focus on producing content that appeals to your own tastes. Personally, regardless of whether it’s broadcasted traditionally or through streaming platforms, the idea of having 22 episodes available feels significant nowadays.
Poker Face
On Peacock, you can jump in and mention, “The one featuring Joseph Gordon-Levitt is highly praised.” Then simply tap and dive into watching it. This method of engaging with stories is something I truly appreciate. It’s also through this approach that I initially encountered it.
Columbo
I had watched it when I was younger, but revisiting it through streaming services during the quarantine allowed me to rediscover it as an adult. The series comprised numerous episodes filled with fresh content for me to explore. It’s not necessary to watch them all sequentially; I can jump between different ones at my leisure since I know they’re enjoyable. We’ll find out how others take to it too.

LYONNE

Wasn’t
Columbo
Over the span of about 40 years, Rian?

JOHNSON

The final episode of
Columbo
It occurred in 2003. It’s incredible. The initial episode was back in the ’70s.

This could go on for another three decades!

LYONNE

Age is just a figure. This is what I constantly say to Rian whenever he starts feeling self-conscious and messages me at midnight. I tell him, “Rian, darling, relax. A person’s age is simply a digit.”

Natasha, you’re handling the finale, and you also directed an episode in the previous season. It seems like you’re crafting a more seamless narrative towards the end of this season with recurring character appearances across several episodes. Are you laying down any groundwork for season three?

JOHNSON

This element – in a remarkably enjoyable and surprising manner – concludes the season. It’s not merely an additional one.
Poker Face
This episode marks the grand finale for the season. It’s incredibly entertaining and bizarre, with Natasha delivering an outstanding directorial performance. The final pair feels almost like a single extended story. Ti West helmed episode 11, while Natasha took charge of episode 12—the finale—and together they crafted this unexpected one-two punch. So remarkable was their work that we chose not to screen it for the press beforehand.

Taylor Schilling is back for the last couple of episodes. Any hints you can offer?

LYONNE

I was deeply touched that she actually came through. This decision was made via a message sent late at night as well. While communicating with Rian, I advised him to take things slow, but then she genuinely turned up, making everything even more enjoyable whenever both Rian and Taylor were present. It feels akin to being part of a film scene. Directing towards the end of the season becomes particularly exciting since we don’t have concerns over arranging future locations anymore. There’s an added advantage in leading from the front and back, something [Rian and I] managed to do this time around.

Natasha, you made
headline news
lately with your feature as your directorial debut, AI hybrid film
Uncanny Valley
, this reminded me of
Russian Doll
And wonder if you’ll do more of that?

LYONNE

This film is something that both Brit Marling, who co-wrote and starred in it, and I have been exploring. We’re having a great time with it.
creating
Russian Doll
I somewhat stumbled upon a significant amount of mathematics – Doug Hofstadter’s work.
I’m a Unique Cycle
and Carlo Rovelli’s
The Order of Time
– and this existential threat of AI. Rian is producing an [untitled] movie that Joe [Gordon-Levitt] and I are also working on, that Joe is hoping to direct, that also deals with that AI existential threat. So it’s been on my radar for some time, and this
Uncanny Valley
The movie is intriguing and relevant to current times.

And should there be any misunderstandings,
Let me clarify them for you.
The movie has been crafted with professional input from production designers, cinematographers, and actors, essentially serving as a backbone similar to how a green screen operates in a Marvel film. For Britt and me, what’s thrilling about our project is scaling up these elements within augmented reality settings. Our approach involves developing a video game scenario wherein the protagonist becomes trapped inside an expansive augmented reality universe. This allows us to construct such worlds on a grander scale than would typically be feasible. However, it’s important to mention that we’ve adopted a hybrid filmmaking technique—everything you see has been captured through practical means without compromising any departments during production.

What about taking further action?
Russian Doll
?

LYONNE

Sure, in an odd sense, I view life as one of those nesting Russian dolls. If we learned anything from David Lynch, it’s not to be surprised by what unfolds.
Fire Walk With Me
and then
Twin Peaks: The Return
So I suppose whether it’s
Poker Face
or
Russian Doll
or
Uncanny Valley
Or whatever they may be, they perform their small survival tactics. I gain valuable insights from observing them.
Twin Peaks
In total, and after spending an extensive amount of time in this industry—four decades, to be precise—I have come to realize this.
lifeless for approximately half of it
– I suppose I understand that everything is constantly evolving. I try not to get overly worked up about situations as they happen because that’s what all the fuss and commotion is meant for.

Russian Doll
is eternal. So I do think it’ll be back at some point. I just have to put pen to paper, and I’m doing all these other things. So, you got to really write them, is the thing. One thing at a time! I’m hella excited about season two of
Poker Fac
And, to be honest, I’m really thrilled about it.
Uncanny Valley
part one… and
Russian Doll 3
, why not?

***

A new season of Poker Face premieres with two episodes every Thursday on Peacock.